Realpolitika’s Zaza Abashidze spoke to Natalia Arno, the founder and President of the Free Russia Foundation. Facing imprisonment on bogus treason charges for her pro-democracy work, Arno left Russia in 2012 and established the organization aiming to “unite and support all individuals and forces working toward a free, peaceful and prosperous Russia.”
My first question is: what kind of country exists in Vladimir Putin’s mind? How does he imagine Russia’s model and its future—and how do these beliefs shape his politics, from the war in Ukraine to repression and poverty? What does he ultimately want?
I think Putin’s Russia was evolving in his head. When he was just placed in the position of the president of Russia, he may have had one idea. But the more power he could grab, the more elaborate the vision of Russia that he wanted became.
There is a saying that power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely. With taking all the control in the country, having all this influence globally, his appetite grew. Of course, we all heard about the “Russian World” that he imagined. And in his Russian world, there are no borders. Countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, and so on – they don’t exist. They are a part of his ambition now. And we know he said the biggest geopolitical catastrophe was the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Putin glorifies Russia’s Past more than he things about Russia’s future
Of course, there is another thing – the place in history. Putin really sees himself in the history books as one of Russia’s most important rulers. He glorifies Russia’s past more than he thinks about Russia’s future. He takes from Russian history all the worst parts – all this imperial, colonial vision- and tries harder to implement it in modern times.
What he is doing is a very distorted, very perverted vision of the past and the future. But he thinks of himself as a messiah, a person who makes Russia great again. That is the main idea for him.
What does it mean to live in Russia today without loyalty to the Kremlin? How is daily life for those who reject its narratives and still try to stand up for the truth?
I had to flee Russia in 2012. That was a long time ago. It was “vegetarian times”, as we call it: before the annexation of Crimea, before the assassination of Boris Nemtsov, before a constitutional coup and, of course, full-scale invasion [of Ukraine]. But, even then, ordinary life was already very difficult.
Surveillance, phone tapping, and similar illegal actions from the government were already widespread, and for activists like me, it was already the norm.
I clearly remember that surveillance against me was happening 24/7. Even in my apartment building, sometimes these FSB officers would come to harass, to intimidate. They would tell me what color of underwear I was wearing, just to say that we have cameras, bugs, even in your apartment, or bathroom.
When I fled Russia and moved through European countries, the surveillance didn’t stop
What struck me the most was that after I fled Russia in 2012 and moved through European countries—EU and NATO members like Lithuania and Poland—and later to the United States, the surveillance didn’t stop. It continued. For the Kremlin’s agents, it seemed completely normal to follow us even in Vilnius, Warsaw, and Brussels.
Transnational repression by the Kremlin is a daily reality—we know it well. It’s a powerful tool for them. The message they send is clear: our tentacles reach everywhere. Leaving Russia doesn’t mean you’re safe. If you’re seen as an enemy, they will keep coming after you—inside the country or abroad, it makes no difference.
So, imagine what it means to live in Russia under Putin’s perverse and maniacal regime. To answer your question directly, it means risking your life. You face the Kremlin’s brutality and the constant threat of its abnormal, repressive actions.
My next question is about life under constant propaganda. How does this relentless messaging shape the mindset of ordinary Russians who are not against the Kremlin? What core values do they still hold on to, and how do they make sense of the world around them? Do many truly believe that, for example, people like you are agents of the West, working to destroy Russia?
Of course, the impact of propaganda is enormous. The Kremlin spends vast sums on it—alongside its military budget—and it keeps growing. It’s truly unprecedented. But at the same time, it became so excessive that many people no longer believe it. When Putin flies with birds or dives to “discover” a 2,000-year-old amphora, people roll their eyes. It is too much. For many Russians, propaganda has become background noise—a constant, meaningless hum.
For many Russians, propaganda has become background noise—a constant, meaningless hum.
But I believe that people who share our values still exist inside Russia—and their number is actually growing. Independent media and human rights organizations working in exile but broadcasting back into Russia still have a stable, even expanding, audience. I’d say there are fewer genuine supporters of Putin’s regime—some back it out of conviction, others for career reasons. But they’re the ones given platforms, visibility, and protection. They’re loud and everywhere because it’s safe for them to express support for the Kremlin.
But most people are passive—they don’t care. They ignore propaganda, they ignore politics. And honestly, that’s quite typical everywhere—in the United States, in Georgia. People want to live their lives, saying, “We don’t want to get involved in politics; we don’t understand it.” But, of course, there’s another side to that coin: when you don’t care about politics, politicians still care about you—and that’s when things can turn dangerous.
Let me interrupt for a second because in Georgia, the government is trying to promote a sense of nihilism, and as a result, some people are distancing themselves from politics, so it sounds similar to me.
Yes, Nihilism is the tool for the governments, and I’m not surprised that it is similar in Georgia. But, on the other hand, I also want to add that Russia was still one of the biggest consumers of VPN’s, so it means that there was a demand for free and objective information, even though the censorship was only growing.
It is extremely important to realize what the reality is in Russia.
Repressions are only growing. The scope and sophistication of repression is only increasing. Not long ago, political sentences were two or three years—now it’s 14, 15, even 20 years, and that has sadly become normal. Many have already received such sentences—not just opposition figures, but ordinary people too. The regime is clearly trying to send a message of fear, jailing more and more everyday citizens, including students and even those who were merely passing by a protest.
Imagine, many of them are behind bars because they decided to respond honestly to pollsters. So, it’s easy to understand why part of society succumbs to nihilism. But on the other hand, when people still choose to seek the truth under such terrifying conditions, it gives us hope.
While the Kremlin controls the entire country, it still fears that any form of resistance could grow. That’s why it seeks to crush it altogether—even the smallest, most symbolic acts of defiance. We saw this clearly when people tried to lay flowers in the public spaces during Navalny’s funeral.
They do this constantly because they fear any form of resistance. My organization helps evacuate activists and journalists, assisting them with relocation. Tbilisi became, in many ways, the capital of exiled Russians—I remember those times well. Tbilisi and Vilnius were the two main hubs for Russians in exile. One of our busiest years was 2021, right before the full-scale invasion. The regime was already preparing for it, eliminating political opposition and trying to prevent any resistance to the coming war. But it’s impossible to imprison everyone. More people are dissatisfied with the situation, and it’s clear that few genuinely support the regime.
Right before the full-scale invasion, the regime was already preparing for it, eliminating political opposition
There are no long lines at the conscription centers. The authorities either have to force people into service—since real mobilization in the regions never truly stopped, especially in the national republics—or keep raising salaries to lure them to the front. They’ve already increased pay several times, but even that scheme no longer works the way the regime hoped.
My next question is about Georgia. As we speak here in Strasbourg, it’s been 13 years since Georgian Dream came to power, and many fear the oligarchy will never step down. With your experience dealing with regimes like Russia—and knowing Georgia well through your organization’s work there—how would you describe the country today?
It is really sad, because we were always so proud of Georgia—of its choices, its determination, and its achievements. We used to cite Georgia as a success story: the reforms, the aspirations, the strength of its civil society. It was an inspiring example for us to point to and support. That’s why it’s so painful to see what’s happening now. We understand that much of it comes from the Kremlin’s persistent influence—and, as always, dictators copy and paste each other’s methods and repressive laws.
Dictators copy and paste each other’s methods and repressive laws.
They all use the same playbook. Back in 2016, we published a report called Russia’s Bad Example, showing how laws like the “foreign agent” legislation were being copied across the world—not just in the post-Soviet space, but also in Africa, Latin America, and beyond. Dictators learn from each other; they copy and paste every repressive practice. Sadly, we now see the same happening in Georgia. It is heartbreaking to witness the growing number of political prisoners—it’s unimaginable.
For the community of exiled Russians, Georgia had once been a refuge. We were deeply grateful to Georgia for welcoming us. It was close, safe, and a very effective base for continuing our work—broadcasting, supporting Ukraine, and staying connected. But now, many of those activists have been forced to leave Georgia as well, which is truly tragic.
This trend is crystal clear in Georgia, which is why we draw direct parallels with the Kremlin: shrinking civic space, marginalizing opponents, silencing independent media, expelling foreign journalists, and more. Is it the Kremlin playbook?
Exactly—and unfortunately, yes. From our experience, I can give an example: years ago, we saw a similar pattern emerge in Belarus, and we often said that Russia was following the same path—copying its laws, restricting internet access, even controlling IP addresses. A few years before, Russia wasn’t like this, but it has been moving steadily in that direction. I sincerely hope Georgia won’t follow the same path, that there’s still time to stop and turn back. It’s difficult, of course—but your society remains vibrant, and that gives hope.
I think Georgian society is now facing a decisive battle that will define its future.
I think Georgian society is now facing a decisive battle that will define its future. If it’s lost, the country may unfortunately follow the same path—and that could last for many years. But I truly believe that, in the end, we will all prevail. That’s why we keep fighting, even when many allies doubt the prospects of democracy in Russia.
As pro-democracy Russians, we can’t afford to stop believing. Our very name—Free Russia Foundation—reflects our goal: a free Russia. We’ll never give up on that fight. And I would say the same for you—there is always hope. You’re in a better position because your struggle is still recent; there’s still time to change the course. I hope the European Union recognizes this and continues to support you. Moldova is a great example—it shows that change is still possible.
I’d like to ask you a more personal question. You’ve been exiled, attacked multiple times, and even poisoned in London, if I’m not mistaken. What keeps you going despite such dangers? These are not ordinary risks—they’re matters of life and death. Even as we sit here doing this interview, anything could happen. What gives you the strength to continue?
I now live in the United States and often speak to American audiences. Especially this year, I keep telling them: never take democracy and freedom for granted. These values are fragile, and they must be defended every single day. There are people in many parts of the world who are dying for them, and we understand that risk very well.
I don’t want to surrender it to a dictatorship. That’s why I keep fighting
As for why I keep going—it’s actually quite simple. I miss my country deeply. I want to go back home. It breaks my heart that my son can’t see his father. It’s wrong. Russia is not Putin’s country—it’s mine, it’s ours. I don’t want to surrender it to a dictatorship. That’s why I keep fighting—for the chance to return to a free Russia one day.
Can we say that Free Russia is not only a community of the Kremlin’s victims, but also a group of experts who know how to deal with the regime? How do you see the future—both for Russia and for your organization?
Yes, of course. I started this organization alone at my kitchen table—just me at first, then one more person joined, and then another. Today, it has grown into a large organization headquartered in Washington, D.C., with representation in Brussels.
Our first regional office opened in Kyiv in 2016—and we never closed it. We remain the only Russian organization with an office there. We also have offices in Berlin and Vilnius, partners in Paris, and we used to have a strong office in Tbilisi before we had to close it.
No matter where we are, we remain pro-democracy Russians
Our mission is clear—it’s in our name: Free Russia. Our ultimate goal is to make the organization unnecessary, to have no reason for the Free Russia Foundation to exist, because Russia itself will be free. When that day comes, we’ll return home to help rebuild and reform our country.
Right now, the Russian pro-democracy movement is becoming truly global. What we’re working toward is unity between activists inside Russia and those in exile—two legs of the same body. The Kremlin is trying to destroy that connection through repressive laws and intimidation, and other forces are trying to divide us as well. But we must resist that. No matter where we are, we remain pro-democracy Russians—and we’ll keep fighting for a better, freer Russia from anywhere in the world
